How to Succeed in Show Business (By Really Trying)
An Excellent Interview with Rising Hollywood Star Nick Cafero
I met Nick Cafero in the fall of 2010 when he auditioned for the Hullabahoos, the a cappella group at the University of Virginia that I had been a member of for a year. I hoped he could at least somewhat sing because I liked him a lot immediately. Unfortunately he was terrible. Sorry, that was a very “Nick” joke. He was in fact very good and over the years got even better - something of a theme, you’ll see. We went through a surprising number of similar experiences - singing with the Hullabahoos, singing with a Cape Cod summer group called the Hyannis Sound, and we both moved out to Los Angeles shortly after graduating from UVA to see if there might be a spot for us in the big circus.
I asked our wedding planner for help picking a pal to give a toast’n’roast and she said, “Honestly - just pick someone who will do a good job.” In addition to delighting our guests and making me cry, Nick has also done good jobs on The Office, Blackish, 9-1-1, Set It Up, Pitch Perfect, Minx, and some other stuff too. I have always admired and occasionally envied his work ethic and general go-gettery. People want him on their team, and I have received more “Is he single?” inquiries about him than all my other bros combined (Ladies, please spare me and just send your DM’s to @ncafero). I am certain that he will be a household name before long, which is why this interview is such a glorious opportunity for you to get to know him before the masses.
Nick just finished the final level of Groundlings and was invited to join the Sunday Company (a big deal). If you’re in LA, go see him do his thing starting at some point in May/June!
Nick, I wanted to talk to you because I always like talking to you. I know you’re usually reticent to talk about yourself, always Mister “How are you, how’s your family?” so I thought this would give me a nice excuse to see what I could wring out of you. And, you are succeeding in an industry with an extremely high rate of failure and I think your success is just beginning so I want to get to you before the rest of the wolves find you.
That’s very sweet. Your mouth to God’s ear.
A friendly, curious alien visits our planet to learn about our civilization. They ask you to describe your job. How do you respond?
I would say…my job is to observe and digest human experiences, and then in a creative way, either through words that I’ve written, or using my own body and voice, regurgitate those experiences in a way that is relatable to the masses in order to elicit some sort of emotional response. My personal preference would be for that response to be laughter.
To what end?
To get a laugh, to make people feel good, to give them an escape, to hold up a mirror for people to look at and think about the world and their relationship to it and each other. I know that sounds very self-serious but I think that’s what it is at its heart. To me it’s more fun than earnest.
Yeah but you’ve chosen to spend your one precious life pursuing it, it doesn’t get much more earnest than that.
That is true. I am very serious about playing make believe.
If your path is the alphabet, what was point A, what letter are you at now, and what is at point Z?
Point A would be performing at my house. That was mostly with my brother Chris, but the first thing I remember doing was singing Broadway musicals with my sister because she was obsessed with them. You know how the CD’s used to have those inserts with all the lyrics? I remember holding the pamphlet for Rent and singing duets with Jacqueline. And then I was in Annie in Middle School and I did the Music Man in high school. I have a distinct early memory of riding with my dad and listening to a Frank Sinatra song and telling him I wanted to be Frank Sinatra when I grew up. So there has always been that.
At this point I think I’m around J or K, probably closer to J - it’s still closer to the beginning but I really feel like I’m one step away from knowing the alphabet, like when you get to the LMNOP and things happen really fast and then you get to the other side. I feel like I’m really close to things happening and changing quickly, I don’t think it’s this linear thing…it builds and builds and then it takes off exponentially and I do feel like I’m right up against that curve.
Tell me a little more about the building part.
I moved out here almost nine years ago. It took me five years to get a theatrical audition. My rule when I moved out was - every year I’ll take a really honest look at myself, and if I have gotten any better or made my situation any better, even if just a little bit, then I will stay and continue. I don’t want to chase something that will never happen. And every year, I believe that has been the case. I can’t pay my bills entirely yet, but the opportunities I’m getting are on a different level. I really feel close to things starting to move, and I know that when that happens it will come with its own challenges, its own alphabet. And I could always go back a few letters.
And Point Z? When you’re 85 and still crushing?
I want kids, grandkids…career wise, I want to do something like what Reese Witherspoon did with Hello Sunshine. My brother has the same goal, I would love to do that together, where you are the gatekeeper, you can read a book and decide, “I’m going to turn this into a miniseries, I could be in it, or maybe I’ll be shooting something else.” I don’t know if he has a production company, but somebody like Jason Bateman, who writes, directs, produces, acts - I want that. And I really admire people like Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow who it seems are always taking people in, collaborating, teaching, learning.
Obviously there is no guarantee that I’ll find my way to that. I’m a very anxious person but thinking about it makes me more excited than anxious, so I think that’s something.
I know the way you’re wired you’ll always find something to fixate your nerves on, but have you conquered any of that?
I do sometimes notice things like - I remember how nervous I used to get before going in to work a shift at a restaurant. And now when I go in - there’s no situation that can happen that I haven’t seen before. And if there is one, I know it won’t actually matter. There will be some way to handle it, and at some point in the night I will be done and I will go home.
I feel like if I’d asked you nine years ago if you thought you’d still have a restaurant job in 2023 you’d have said something like, “I certainly hope not!” How do you feel about it?
I am at the point now where I can just pick up shifts when I want to. I really like my restaurant, Terroni, and I enjoy the flexibility they allow me. I get commercial residuals deposited in my account every Thursday, sometimes it’s a nice chunk of change but it’s really inconsistent. This week I’m working three shifts and so I’m not at all concerned with what that commercial number will be. There’s so much that’s out of my control, and just staying busy helps me not ruminate.
I’m honestly looking forward to going in tonight. One of my absolute favorite things to do is go out to eat and I know this sounds corny but I like giving that experience to other people. Some tables come in and we really hit it off, they’re super nice and receptive and I’m like, these people are gonna have a great night. And then they go, “Excuse me, these scallops are cold,” and I go ahhh fuck everything’s ruined.
Was it a difficult thing to announce to yourself, your family, the world, that you were going to pursue a career in the arts?
I truly can’t think of anything I’d rather be doing. There are plenty of times when it is scary, I don’t have stability, it’s been really hard and heartbreaking, it isn’t the kind of thing where you start at a company and if you do this and this then by next year you’ll be this and have this salary. And we went to a school that attracts a lot of high achievers and I have plenty of friends who are crushing it and I’m just not at the point where I can do the things they’re doing.
My family has always been supportive. Also, Chris went down the same path and they supported him too. My plan when I went to college was to get into the business school and then go work for Major League Baseball. I was struggling in the business school prerequisite classes, like accounting and advanced econ…I just wasn’t doing well, wasn’t enjoying it, and I remember calling my dad to tell him how I was feeling. He said, “Listen…son, we’re not - we’re not numbers people, okay? We’re storytellers. Don’t worry about the numbers. Take a history class, take a writing class - just get your degree and then go do what you want.”
They know that I will find a way to support myself and pay my bills. I will say it is emotionally taxing for them to not really understand the business and to see all the heartbreak that happens. They don’t want to see their kid sad. They don’t understand what it means to be “on avail” for a commercial shoot and then just…not do it, not get paid. For me it’s like, I’ll be sad for a couple of minutes and then move on to the next one.
Do you think you could be doing what you’re doing if your family weren’t supportive, like if you had to prove them wrong?
I don’t know. I don’t think so, because it’s been hard and there were a lot of times I wanted to quit and they helped me through those. I know I’m very lucky to have that. I know people who don’t have that. I had to find a new therapist because mine moved and I met with this woman and talked to her for five minutes and she was the first person who ever said to me, “Have you maybe considered another career?” And I had told her what I did but the way I described it was like I’ve had zero success - which is its own thing I’m sure - and when she said that I was honestly upset, and I was like, “Well hold on, I’ve booked this, and this, I came really close to this,” and she said, “Oh, so you ARE doing well.”
She sounds like a student of Viktor Frankl.
Who’s that?
He was a psychiatrist/Holocaust survivor, he wrote Man’s Search for Meaning. And in it his patients come to him sad and depressed and he asks them, “Well why don’t you just kill yourself?” and then they start to list the things in their life that they care about and then they go, “Ohhhh…”
Wow. That’s genius, I love that. I’m not sure that’s what she was doing, but if so - it worked.
I remember being younger and seeing improv shows and very arrogantly thinking, “I could do that.” I tried a few different classes and - no. I can not. I’m sure that if I kept at it I’d improve, but I honestly believe that if it were something I should be doing, I would have taken to it more naturally. Am I wrong?
I actually don’t have much of an improv background. I took some at Groundlings but after the first couple levels I started doing all writing. We had to do a little bit of improv in our recent show and I was so panicked about it because I hadn’t done it in forever. I did it, it was okay, but it’s definitely a muscle that you have to work. My personal belief is that comedic instincts are innate. You either have them or you don’t. But if you do have something, even if it’s just a small seed, you can become good. You’d have to work at it and spend time with good teachers.
When you helped me prepare for that audition, were you shocked at how bad I was? (Several months ago I had an opportunity to audition over Zoom for a very small part in a movie and asked Nick to help me prepare. I didn’t book it, but it was exhilarating.)
A little bit, yeah. You know, I do think you could be a good actor if you wanted to be. I remember a while ago when I was taking a class you were helping me run a scene and like, you got it. You got what the nuances were, not that there was one way the scene should have gone but what you were doing worked and was very natural. But when it was your turn you got really tense and that’s totally normal. But the fact that it’s instinctual means something is there, you’d just need to do a lot of work to tear that other stuff away.
I’ve gotten so much better, but I still have my tics. It’s like going to the gym, you just keep doing it and doing it and at some point it clicks that, oh, I’m a human, this person is standing two feet away from me, I don’t need to TALK! REALLY LOUD! And they know what I’m saying because they’re human and I am saying words, I don’t need to mime everything I’m saying. It takes a lot of work to make it look like you aren’t trying.
When you’re performing your sketch shows with the Groundlings - how do you feel before you go onstage, how do you feel onstage, and how do you feel after it’s over?
Before, I am incredibly anxious and nervous and the only thing that helps at all is working my ass off to the point of exhaustion. I just keep running it, running it, running it making sure I’m as prepared as possible. Then when I know the show is imminent, like a half hour before - I say a little meditative prayer, and then - I think this must be how professional athletes get right before competition - I get really pumped up, I get super focused, my heart rate jacks up, I’ve got that “LET’S GO!” feeling. Right before I go onstage I say, literally aloud, “Fuck it.” And I let it go so I can be fully present.
Onstage…I have goosebumps the whole time. I just try to be patient, listen, and trust myself. It feels like you’re riding these waves of the audience’s energy, you’re communicating with them, picking up on what they’re finding funny, so you add a little something and when it lands…it’s the best feeling in the world. It’s such a high, you feel like you are flying.
And then you get offstage and hate yourself. Just kidding. Well, sometimes. You think about everything you did wrong and the emotional hangover sets in. But then other times the feeling is just, “Yes. That was awesome.” And you glide down from it and cannot wait until you get to do it again. There isn’t time for that if you’re in the next sketch, you just set it aside and focus on the next thing. When it’s done I just kind of relive it all. And then the next day I’ll go on a run and I try to relive it all again in my head, go over everything I can remember and imagine myself back in it, imagining saying or doing something else.
I do think I’ve gotten to the point where when I’m really determined - I know how to work my ass off on it so I get to the point where I’m comfortable letting go. I am a bit obsessive. I…I want to be an elite performer. I want to be really, really, really good. There are some people that I’m just like…oh my god, you are incredible. Like Philip Seymour Hoffman. Every movement you make is incredible. I want to do that. I’ll never be like that. But I want to be.
Talent crushes?
Anybody that can remove all awareness of their actor self and just be fully in it - I watched a movie with Adam Driver and it could have just been this corny, campy kind of movie. But he is just so 100% in it that I was completely enthralled. Like, no wink to the audience…I felt that way about - did you see the clip that was going around of Jenna Ortega doing her Wednesday Addams dance?
I did, it rocks.
I watched it so many times. I mean the set and lighting and costume are cool, but she’s just so completely unbothered, there’s no part of Jenna Ortega watching and worrying she might look stupid, it’s just Wednesday Addams dancing. I personally struggle with that. Or - oh my God, Jim Carrey. My brother always says he should have won an Oscar for The Grinch. Like, go watch The Grinch and just watch what he does. That stuff isn’t in the script, like he got the lines on the page, and then created that. It’s unbelievable! It’s insane to me and feels so out of reach. I love it.
Can you give me a brief but complete account of all the classes you’ve taken, the money you’ve spent, just an odometer reading of the miles you’ve put in?
I have been in a lot of classes. I did four years of Lesly Kahn, three levels of UCB, five levels at Groundlings. I did a musical theatre class that I was in for about a year, I’ve done private coachings. I think I’ve spent more than $50,000. I don’t know the actual number but that is definitely a conservative estimate.
How many auditions, how many bookings?
I would say…400 auditions? I think. I’ve booked four commercials, and television and film wise - somewhere between ten and twenty.
I feel like that’s actually a really good batting average.
It is. I don’t get a ton of auditions, the ones that I feel like I’m right for I work really hard on and on those ones I have a good hit rate. And even if I don’t book it, but get called back a few times - it hurts more when I don’t get it, but ultimately I think it’s still a win, like this huge studio was very seriously considering paying me a bunch of money to pretend I’m this person.
When you feel right for a role, do you get this feeling like, “I hope they can see that I’m the best person for the job”?
I never think, “I’m the best person for this job.” I think you get to a certain point where it’s not that someone’s better than you, they’re just different. I screen tested for an NBC pilot a year ago and it came down to me and one other guy. It was a long process, it took a couple months - and I knew that no one could perform the role the way I interpreted it better than I could. I don’t mean that in a cocky way, I mean - this is how I see this person Adam and this is how I’m going to present him. And someone else sees him in a different way and presents him that way and it’s not that either of us is better than the other, it’s just that we’re different. And maybe they want his Adam and maybe they want my Adam. And in this case, they wanted his version.
Oof. How close have you come to quitting?
There have been a handful of times where I’ve felt like, “Fuck this, I can’t do this anymore.” Covid was really tough. I always thought that the ultimate thing would be to be the star of a TV show. And it happened. I booked that NBC pilot. We had our dinner with the producers, I was going back and forth with the wardrobe people, I was getting ready to go to Oregon to shoot it. And then Covid happened and everything got shut down. That carrot was still dangling for a while, which helped me keep going. It was like, “maybe it will be a Peacock series…” We never got an official message, but it’s over. I’m not there yet but I do know that at some point I will benefit from that happening - because I got what I wanted, and I realized that it wasn’t going to fix all my problems. And then I lost it. Which is good to know that you can survive. But yeah I’m still not at that “I’m so grateful for that experience” stage, I’m still at GODDAMMIT!!! (Here's the thrilling March 2020 press release)
Then there was that second one that I already talked about where I tested for a long time and they chose the other guy, and that’s fine. And then this third one - I auditioned over Zoom, and they loved me. Like, excessively. They asked if I could audition again the next day with the producers and showrunner and I said, “Of course.” I did it again and the showrunner said, “I have no notes. And I always have notes. When I read this book - you are the person I saw. You’ll be hearing from us very soon.” And I was like - oh my God, I think I’m gonna get this. And then I didn’t hear from them for a week.
My agent reached out and they said, “He’s very much still in consideration, they just need to get some other pieces lined up and then he’ll do a chemistry read.” Eventually they booked the female lead and I did the chemistry read and when I logged into the meeting I saw there was a different showrunner. I remember thinking, “Huh, that’s weird, they have two showrunners.” I did the scene and logged off and then found out a couple days later they had fired the previous showrunner, the one who had loved me, and the new one wanted to ‘go in a different direction.’
This also happened right after I was scheduled to recur on 911 but they rewrote the script and my character didn’t fit anymore, and I’d been really looking forward to that - it was a series of gut punches and I was just like…I don’t know if I can take this anymore. And I know there will be more days like that.
How do you bounce back? Does it just take time?
I think…you have to allow yourself to be upset, you have to mourn the loss. You have to go after it like it’s the most important thing in the world because otherwise you don’t stand a chance. The downside of that is when you don’t get it, it’s that much more crushing. And you have to process that, you can’t just pretend, “Oh well, that’s fine!” You put in a lot of work, you believe it’s gonna happen, and it sucks when it doesn’t. Be upset, and then at some point let it go. Sometimes the letting go takes a lot longer than you’d like it to. Usually what helps me is focusing on the next thing. And you have to celebrate the victories, no matter how big or small they are.
When I watch tennis I always notice how even if someone’s getting blown off the court, if they hit a good shot and win a point, they pump their fist and go “Hell yeah, let’s go!” Like, they do it so consistently that I am absolutely certain it’s a basic coaching point - when you do something well, you pump your fist and celebrate.
Yeah that’s great. You have to do that because there’s just so much rejection built into it. I don’t care who you are, you’re not getting everything you want. I remember Tom Hanks said that whenever he doesn’t get something, he goes and gets himself a treat, whether it’s a book or pancakes or whatever. Just something.
Woody knows best. What advice would you give to someone who wants to make it in show biz?
For a newcomer? This isn’t coming from on high because I still feel like I’m piecing it together. But the first thing you have to do is be secure in your life. You have to have your bases covered, a roof over your head, reliable income, a routine, friends. You have to have your own life, I really don’t think you can do good work or make meaningful progress without that stability. I spent my first year out here just getting situated, didn’t take a class or anything. I still sometimes get so caught up that I forget to keep that balance and things will be going well but I feel terrible and then I’m like duh, idiot, you haven’t been in the world.
I think you need a little naïveté because it’s such an impossible mission. But if you have some talent, you’re smart, you’re willing to work hard and be molded, you can do it. Don’t be a dick. It’s so easy to not be a dick. Get on a track, get into classes, meet people, then after a few maybe you do a little project with one of your classmates on the side and that leads to something. Just get around people that are smarter and funnier and better than you, that inspire you, and stay on that track and keep going and eventually something will work out. I had a class show, a commercial agent saw me, someone else recommended me to their manager. Oh and every time something like that happens it feels like, “This is it!” And it isn’t. But it gets you closer.
Be honest with yourself, and try not to get competitive. That’s easier said than done, but I really do think there’s room for everyone. Listen. That’s what most of acting is anyway.
Prepare, be prepared. There’s so little that’s within your control that whatever you can control: control the shit out of it. I’ve heard someone say, “I got this audition but they only gave me three days to prepare.” Are you kidding me? Three days is so much time. Read the script, read it over and over, extract every nugget of information you can find. Everyone has their own process. But just do whatever works for you to make yourself really good.
Maybe you aren’t right for it but they will see the work you put in. And maybe the next thing will be right. At the very least, you’ll get better. I’ve gotten so much better from working on auditions, doing my self tapes, helping other people prepare for their auditions. Work your ass off and when you don’t get it, which you probably won’t, let yourself be sad and then let it go. My ritual is literally throwing my script in the trash when I leave the room. I don’t know if it helps, but I do it.
Maybe you should get a big chest that you store them all in, a graveyard of all the parts you busted your ass for but didn’t book.
I do have a big chest, Brandon. And inside it is my heart. And all the parts I didn’t get.
Aw. Do you have some mantra that you find helpful?
I do! I actually have it printed and framed on my wall, want me to read it to you?
Inspire me.
“When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.”
I love that quote. Is that a quote, is quote the right word?
Well, you just quoted it. I guess it’s almost like a parable.
Yeah, a parable. That’s my favorite thing and it’s so perfect for this business. Things that you wouldn’t even connect, like…all the stuff you say yes to, every class, every relationship, every performance, audition, whatever…might not form a direct line to where you want to go, but somehow they all add up.
I love it. I am extremely excited to watch it add up for you, Nick. Want to leave the nice people a joke?
I usually tell stories but someone told me one the other day that really made me laugh. It isn’t mine, but:
What did Jesus say when they removed the nails from his hands?
Keep reading with a 7-day free trial
Subscribe to The BBC Report to keep reading this post and get 7 days of free access to the full post archives.